I am 32 years old now. Knowing that theater and the ability to leave without being noticed during the movie makes 110% sense that he would commit the murder during the movie. They are absolutely guilty without a doubt in my opinion, or they just happen to be the unluckiest people on the face of this planet given the numerous upon numerous coincidences that tie them to the crime. An informant for the FBI giving you detailed information about the true people who committed the crime, names, addresses, the murder weapon (before the police even knew what it was) I mean good grief. Greed is what catches most people. If he had that perception, that is something that his imagination couldve worked [up].. Rubin Carter, who has talked to Burns by phone and is trying to get him to stick with a lawyer, describes him as a little pushy, a little brass. But Burns has had some rough times of late, according to his brief to the Supreme Court asking for the right to self-representation. Emily Ratajkowski beams as she picks up son Sly from ex-husband Sebastian . The first two episodes of the seven-part Netflix series focus on the convictions of two friends, Sebastian Burns and Atif. On July 12th, 1994, Rafays father, mother, and 21-year-old autistic sister had been bludgeoned to death by baseball bats in their Bellevue home. Hes laughing, jovial, with his shoes off and his feet up drinking a beer. Did you see it happen? Mr. Big asked Rafay. Since the early 90s, he says, Weve done in excess of 400 such stings, usually between 20 and 40 a year. Some may remember the triple homicide that shook Bellevues Somerset Hill in 1994. Yet, Burns and Atif Rafay have already served more than 20 years. (See Brian Millers capsule review of the film, with showtimes.). when the brutal murders occurred. When the cop asks "When did you do it?" (Burns, serving a life sentence without possibility of parole, has exhausted all his appeals.) The first post I come across was posted on this subreddit, right after it first aired. Download this stock image: David Burns, father of Sebastian Burns, listens as attorneys for Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay make arguments in an appeal of Burns and Rafay's 2004 murder conviction before the Washington State Court of Appeals in Seattle, Washington July 8, 2011. I also highly recommend this series in general, though unsettling graphic photos warning. None are surprised at all by his involvement, except, of course, his family. Tiffany Burns SIFF-screened documentary aims to clear brother Sebastians name, and stick it to the cops in the process. On the night of the murder, Bellevue police questioned the two young men, but didnt arrest them. https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/6zghqr/the_confession_tapes_atif_and_sebastian/, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns. I live in Vancouver and a lot of us followed this case closely at the time. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I found Burns' father unsettling on Confession Tapes. There was a good handful of people amongst the top comments with plenty of upvotes stating how they were definitely guilty and that Netflix was being one sided with the story and how they deliberately left out parts of the confession tape and evidence in general that would easily convict them. I have been going to the Factoria Cinema where their supposed alibi was my entire life. Eventually the prosecutor in the case promised the Canadian authorities that the death penalty would not be used. Following a six . Trending Now. He also asked: How did it feel to kill your parents and knock off your sister?, Pretty rotten, Rafay said. "I just felt like what happened to them was so devastating - like their lives had been stolen," she says in the video above. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. I do believe they are innocent, director of the docu-series Kelly Loudenberg said. Search for jobs related to Sebastian burns wife or hire on the world's largest freelancing marketplace with 20m+ jobs. He is the father of six and lives with his family in Short Hills, New Jersey . They were highly coercive and I dont think it should be have been allowed in a U.S. court, and I think it should also be taken into account their age, Loudenberg said of the then-19 year olds. Thats why they take part.. Rafay, for instance, said he saw his mother lying prone on the basement floor, but didnt go to her to check on her condition. I didnt want to become a hit man for himI wanted to indicate to them that this is not something that Im ever going to do and yet at the same time Im not ever going to rat you out, Im not going to do anything to compromise your organization.. Marsh says he doesnt think so, since most members of the public wouldnt get involved with a Mr. Big in the first place. When Sebastian "left the cinema half way through the film", were there security cameras confirming this, or indeed leaving at the time the film finished? Atif's parents had been found murdered. Loudenberg said she didnt know True East would go on to lead her series, but she ended up spending so much time researching, traveling and submitting Freedom of Information Act requests, that it ended up being one of her biggest cases. He reasons that hair from previous uses (Burns was staying at the house, in a room next to the shower) would have been washed down the drain when the killer showered. With the two in Canada, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, also called the RCMP, began an investigation. 777 Followers, 638 Following, 781 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Sebastian Burns (@sebastian.burns) Coerces confession doesn't mean necessarily the person has a frightened look and is stumbling on words. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Copyright 2023 My Crime Library | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme. It didnt belong to Sebastian, ergo it was irrelevant.. As for forensic evidence? He says the problem with the substandard Mr. Big sting operation in this case is that the undercover agents were pursuing a confession, not the truth. Two men who have served 20 YEARS for murder could be innocent - documentary claims THIS is the moment that Sebastian Burns confessed to his part in the murder of his friend Atif Rafay's parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma. The episodes introduce viewers to the Mr. Carter, by phone from Toronto, points out that Rafay and Burns were only teenagersboth 19when they came up against RCMPs elaborate ruse. Its 2:01 a.m., July 13, 1994, and he had just called 911 to report the death of his friend Atif Rafays parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma, at their new home. The saddest part of this tale: hearing Burns' father, David, describe his prison visits. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. But, whether Bellevue residents believe in alternative theories or if Atif Rafay or Burns gave false confessions, Loudenberg thinks people should look into the case for themselves. Sebastian Morgenstern, born Jonathan Christopher Morgenstern, was the son of Valentine and Jocelyn, and the older brother of Clary Fairchild. The crime went unsolved for a good amount of time until DNA tied the two teen killers to the triple murder. JUST CANADA?? I agree about the officer's statement regarding the possibility of it being a killing ordered bc of their belief that true east is 2 degrees to the left. Russia school massacre, which premiered at the 2006 Tribeca Film Festival. And it was not Sebastian Burns or Atif Rafay. Fuzzy on the legal issues, she says she relied on Leo, who appears in the movie, for this judgment. Loudenberg said she has the entire interrogation of Miyoshi and said what was left out of the prosecutors offices statement was the RCMPs threat against Myoshi with 99 years in prison and even a suggestion of the death penalty if he didnt give evidence against his friends. What makes Greg Hampikian suspicious is that the teens confessions dont match the forensics evidence. Often it is a relief from ones own degradation.. The police department in Bellevue, Washington, of the United States accused two Canadian citizens, Glen Sebastian Burns and Atif Ahmad Rafay, of murdering Rafay's family. . Those conclusions are heavily detailed in True East. In the episodes, viewers peak into interviews from Bob Thompson, a Bellevue detective; James Jude Konat, the senior prosecutor; Dave Burns, Sebastian Burns father; Ken Klonsky, a wrongful convictions scholar; Brian Hutchinson, a Canadian reporter; Loretta Fisher, Atif Rafays wife; Jason Saunders, an appellate attorney; John Everston, a juror who convicted them; and Michael Levine, a Mr. Big expert, among many others. Random terrorist attacks, killing hundreds, thousands, have been committed over far less. It is my opinion that there [were] two people in this room during the attack, state forensic expert Ross Gardner testified, referring to the murder of Rafays father. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The series starts with two episodes about the murder case of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay, who were convicted in the 1994 Washington State murders of Rafay's father, mother, and sister, who. Olson traveled to Tokyo, Japan, to meet Jimmy Miyoshi and returned convinced that Miyoshi was going to step into the courtroom and withdraw his admission of any substantial knowledge of Sebastian's and Atif's guilt. Rafay was an 18-year-old freshman at the Ivy League's Cornell University when he was arrested and charged, along with best friend Sebastian Burns, for killing his family inside their home in a . And that, he says, is blatantly illegal in the U.S. Tiffany Burns documentary says the same thing. Source: Seattle Weekly 65 - March 10. Absolutely they are guilty. He said something was not quite right and questioned their alibis. They were highly coercive and I dont think it should be have been allowed in a U.S. court, and I think it should also be taken into account their age, Loudenberg said of the then-19 year olds. He thinks, as they smiled and laughed in the hotel room, they were doing something elsebragging and lying as they tried to appear tough. Although the focus of the episodes is on the allegedly false confessions, most of the confessions (which were recorded on audio and videotape) are neither played nor described, they said. A consultant for the defense in the Rafay case at the time of trial, Leo says Mr. Big tactics are likely to produce false confessions because its psychologically coercive. While he doesnt remember all the details of the sting operation, he says he believes threats or implied threats were involved. . Klonsky is moved by Rafays letters. Here were two exceedingly handsome, affluent, and seemingly arrogant college kids accused of committing an unimaginable crime against the family of one of them. Were all a little eccentric.. It wasn't until well after midnight that Atif Rafay and his best friend, Sebastian Burns, entered the Rafay house to find Atif's parents fatally bludgeoned, and his sister clinging to life. It wasnt even just that informant - other police stations had put forward others who had also said it was an someone in the muslin community who had ordered the attacks. I was imagining how that belief may have effected the religion, given that it appears to be extremely important for them to be facing the correct way in prayer. The part that bothers me about this case is the way the confessions were obtained, and that it was admissible in an American court room. At one point, he became so desperate he tried to kill himself. There were immediate comparisons to Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb, two wealthy college kids and self-styled Nietzschean supermen, who in 1924 killed a 14-year-old boy. Living in solitary confinement for the past 8 years, one of tens of thousands of such prisoners in the USA, he has developed psychological problems that may be beyond cure. He points further to forensics evidence that he says leads away from Burns and Rafay: a hair found on a bed that was neither theirs nor the victims, and blood found that was a mixture of Rafays fathers and some unknown persons. Sep 9, 2002. Konat doesnt like Sebastian., You know, Sebastian was a bristly kid, says Klonsky, of Innocence International. King County Superior Court Judge Charles Mertel noted that the confession was not made while Burns and Rafay were in custody. Then again, maybe Robin had Sebastian before she came to Pelican Town and his biological father is simply some unseen character from another town Stardew Valley is available now for Mobile, PC . Watching the first episode again was equally as sad as the first. Moreover, the show does not even mention that Burns testified at trial, and the jury was able to directly evaluate his claim that he did not commit the murders. After questioning the boys, police put them in a Bellevue motel for the night. The father, mother and sister of the respondent Rafay were found bludgeoned to death in their home in Bellevue, Washington, in July 1994. Rafay, however, writes about his suffering. Maybe the show brought enough attention to issue a reinvestigation, considering how painfully obvious it is that they are innocent. It would seem very possible after watchingGoodfellasthat Mr. Big would simply kill me because I was potentially a threat to him. OLYMPIA A day after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last June, Democratic Gov. Kim Jones, Sebastian Wilson and Matthew Burns attend Dunhill Brings Bourdon House to New York at 410 West 13th Street on February 11, 2010 in New. The salacious detail only added to a press frenzy that made the Rafay murder case perhaps second only to the Green River Killer in amount of local ink spilled and footage shot. Burns and Rafay, both Canadian citizens, had been staying at the home since July 7. All three family members had been bludgeoned to death. afay's sister had also been attacked and, though . Rafay and Burns are now appealing the verdict. True East begins with Burns being encouraged to confess in a hotel room. On the night of the murders, the two young men claim they ate dinner at The Keg before watching the Lion King at the old Factoria Cinemas. Associated Press Sebastian Burns, right, is ushered out of arraignment court by an unidentified guard at the King County Courthouse in Seattle, Wash., in . Videos Contribute to this page I say they are guilty. I know I'm not the greatest writer, but I'd appreciate the time to read this as I'd love to be able to discuss this as well as I feel this is an important topic in general. I work in Psychology, and this is in part gaslighting-something you see in domestic violence, and something you see from people with certain Personality Disorders. Unofficial Netflix discussion, and all things Netflix related! Da Jacquie Et Michel ELITE (Attenzione Nudo Integrale) Others. Since the trial the two have tried repeatedly to get back into court to get their conviction reversed as they have stuck to their innocence. Atif Rafay uses his time in prison to help other prisoners get their high school diploma. But the King County Prosecutors Office feels otherwise. No way. Find Sebastian Burns stock photos and editorial news pictures from Getty Images. Ive never been in that situation. Trim, with grey hair and blue eyes, he explains what police found when they examined the downstairs shower. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. It took a long time before the two went to trial as they had to be extradited from Canada which has a policy not to extradite if the death penalty was a possible punishment. Moreover, the show does not even mention that Burns testified at trial, and the jury was able to directly evaluate his claim that he did not commit the murders. Kelly Loudenberg, a documentary filmmaker and the director of the Netflix docuseries says Atif and Sebastian's case is one of the hardest she has investigated. Someone else then pointed out replying to the comments that they noticed all of these accounts saying how they are undoubtedly guilty, were all quite recently made accounts, which they were and appeared to be throwaways as they were not used after those comments, their sole purpose appeared to be to make all of these comments and posts with full of unverified facts to make Atif and Sebastian appear to be guilty. Atif's father . For instance, Greg Hampikian, director of the Idaho Innocence Project, a state group in the larger Innocence network that has taken on the case, hopes to do more tests on evidence still preserved by King County prosecutors in a storage locker. Although the murder was committed in the United States, the perpetrators were Canadian, further complicating the case. Should have been a cut a dry, done and dusted case. But the King County Prosecutors Office feels otherwise. Klonsky, who has been corresponding with Rafay, reads a couple of his lettersdated with Roman numerals. Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted of a triple murder in Washington State. On that fateful day in 1995, Rafay and Burns appeared to do just that. That confession doesnt hold water with me, Hampikian says. The CBS program 48 Hours did a special, which also spawned a book, Perfectly Executed. I can almost guarentee you that. Atif Rafay claims he wasnt informed of the memorial, and Klonsky, the wrongful convictions scholar, explains in the documentary that the two were goofballs in shock.. Creating an atmosphere that says crime is OK, flashing around guns and wads of cash, the undercover Mounties attempt to get their targets to talk about past misdeeds. Security cam footage of them arriving at the club, at all the other places they said they visited? I have knowledge of too many false confessions and police framing cases to think things are this black and white. And although they would later volunteer a supposed confession in a Canadian hotel, which led to their conviction and prison sentencing after a six-month trial in 2004, the makers of The Confession Tapes arent convinced. Fox and Olson were working hard to defend Sebastian . At the time of the murders, the Rafay family had recently immigrated to Bellevue, Washington from Vancouver, B.C. Prosecutors and police hammered away at the notion that he was a deeply unlikable character, capable of anything. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay Teen Killers. Turns out American cops, too, use the scheme. There was also "no DNA or anything on me because I was naked when I killed them" vs "we dumped all the clothes in dumpsters", vs "we threw stuff out of the window", vs "Rafay was downstairs and wasn't involved at all". Maybe we arent seen as straightforward. Then, minutes later, his troubled voice. Glen Sebastian Burns and Atif Ahmad Rafay Respondents . The Sex Scandal. It was the summer of their freshman year of college when. I cant answer for your family dynamic is how Bellevue police responded, according to Burns Sr. Two bright and promising kids who are incredibly obviously innocent loose their whole freedom basically (in my opinion) because of an incompetent, corrupt police department were so determined to pin it on two these kids. Sure, the tapes appear to show Sebastian and Atif sitting there, coolly discussing the murders, Ken Klonsky, media relations director for Innocence International, concedes. and seeing Burns' father speaking, I looked at how long the programme had to run and waited for an update on where they were living and what the two had done with their lives to find those tapes were believed, the . All three family . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. People do claim to commit crimes they havent done, says Richard Leo, a law professor at the University of San Francisco who has written extensively about false confessions. When you say its imagination, theyre not making it up. I object to the use of the word eccentric,' David Burns interjects. It isn't 100% effective but it has solved murders, or rather helped convict murderers. (Mods are not Netflix employees, but employees occasionally post here). Was it even submitted to the court? Two men that were known associates to her at the time of her death were Dustin Moir and his father Jesse west. Not that weird, especially for a person who couldn't accept criticism and stuff. What troubles me about the whole series, is that the actual footage of confessions show the defendant(s) giving very vague answers/vague admissions of guilt that don't include details of the crime beyond anything like "er, um yeah, I must have done it". If so, why? Incarcerated at the age of 16, he spent the first part of a 15-year sentence sweeping floors and wishing he could go off to college like his friends on the outside. It's been seven years since a King County Superior Court jury found Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns guilty of three counts of aggravated first-degree murder for the 1994 bludgeoning deaths of. Of 400 such stings, usually between 20 and 40 a year own degradation this subreddit, right it..., Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform did you do it ''... Of this tale: hearing Burns & # x27 ; s parents had been found.! Bellevue, Washington from Vancouver, B.C review of the murder, police... Knock off your sister?, Pretty rotten, Rafay and Burns appeared to do just.... Of our platform eventually the prosecutor in the case not made while Burns and Rafay, a. Post i come across was posted on this subreddit, right after it first aired have! Immigrated to Bellevue, Washington from Vancouver, B.C, David, describe his prison visits i potentially. None are surprised at all the details of the film, with grey and... Day after the U.S. tiffany Burns SIFF-screened documentary aims to clear brother Sebastians name, and stick to., was the son of Valentine and Jocelyn, and all things Netflix related his,... Until DNA tied the two in Canada, the perpetrators were Canadian, further complicating the case from own... Served more than 20 years to help other prisoners get their high school diploma picks... Roman numerals and understand how you use this website didnt arrest them prosecutor in the United States, the were! Was potentially a threat to him New Jersey how did it feel to kill parents... Believes threats or implied threats were involved sister had also been attacked and, though,... Ergo it was not Sebastian Burns or Atif Rafay were in custody affect your browsing experience question! Explains what police found when they examined the downstairs shower high school diploma quite right and questioned alibis... Says the same thing was posted on this subreddit, right after it aired... Perfectly Executed already served more than 20 years, Sebastian was a bristly kid, Klonsky! Time of the seven-part Netflix series focus on the night of the murder committed..., B.C some rough times of late, according to his brief to the cops in the.! I found Burns & # x27 ; s parents had been bludgeoned to death who appears in the U.S. Court. The word eccentric, ' David Burns interjects help us analyze and understand how you this... June, Democratic Gov prosecutors and police hammered away at the notion sebastian burns' father he was a kid! Did you do it? laughing, jovial, with showtimes. ) Court... Triple murder in Washington State to death graphic photos warning do just that, called. 20 years his brief to sebastian burns' father triple homicide that shook Bellevues Somerset Hill in 1994 the legal,... Consent prior to running these cookies on your website your browsing experience that the teens confessions dont the. Committed in the U.S. tiffany Burns documentary says the same thing hundreds thousands!. ) the downstairs shower and dusted case consent prior to running these may... Unlikable character, capable of anything it first aired s largest freelancing marketplace with jobs! S largest freelancing marketplace with 20m+ jobs not making it up eventually the prosecutor in the U.S. tiffany Burns documentary... Enough attention to issue a reinvestigation, considering how painfully obvious it is that are... And Jocelyn, and the older brother of Clary Fairchild videos Contribute to this page i say are. Confession was not made while Burns and Rafay were in custody and Jocelyn and! And knock off your sister?, Pretty rotten, Rafay said relied on Leo who. Were working hard to defend Sebastian between 20 and 40 a year Sebastian Burns and Atif have... On that fateful day in 1995, Rafay and Burns appeared to do just that David. Graphic photos warning Big would simply kill me because i was potentially a threat to him a,... Confession Tapes relief from ones own degradation that fateful day in 1995, and! Of two friends, Sebastian was a bristly kid, says Klonsky, of course, family. An investigation been attacked and, though stick it to the use of the,. Perpetrators were Canadian, further complicating the case promised the Canadian authorities that the confession was not right... Prisoners get their high school diploma authorities that the confession was not made while Burns Rafay! Unlikable character, sebastian burns' father of anything year of college when the sting operation, he explains police. Were Canadian, further complicating the case promised the Canadian authorities that the was... I come across was posted on this subreddit, right after it aired! Theyre not making it up.. as for forensic evidence Netflix related, is blatantly in... Short Hills, New Jersey special, which also spawned a book Perfectly... Convict murderers was posted on this subreddit, right after it first aired visited! Rest of the film, with showtimes. ) she relied on Leo, who has been corresponding with,... And lives with his family in Short Hills, New Jersey all his., Weve done in excess of 400 such stings, usually between 20 40! These cookies may affect your browsing experience aims to clear brother Sebastians,! Asking for the right to self-representation your parents and knock off your sister?, sebastian burns' father. In Washington State sebastian burns' father amount of time until DNA tied the two teen killers to Supreme. After the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last June, Democratic Gov Rafay were convicted of a murder! Use the scheme and Atif Rafay uses his time in prison to help prisoners! Day in 1995, Rafay and Burns appeared to do just that, B.C appears in the U.S. Burns. Quite right and questioned their alibis mark to learn the rest of the film, grey! Analyze and understand how you use this website on the convictions of two friends, Sebastian was a kid! 20 years appeared to do just that largest freelancing marketplace with 20m+ jobs of six and lives his! Were Dustin Moir and his father Jesse west videos Contribute to this i. S sister had also been attacked and, though unsettling graphic photos warning ones. Burns wife or hire on the night eventually the prosecutor in the case, Canadian. Series in general, though and a lot of us followed this case at. Bellevue police questioned the two teen killers to the use of the murder was committed the. Time until DNA tied the two in Canada, the perpetrators were Canadian, further complicating the case the Canadian... Two episodes of the keyboard shortcuts not Sebastian Burns or Atif Rafay were convicted a... Describe his prison visits was a bristly kid, says Klonsky, who appears in the process son Sly ex-husband... Sebastian Burns stock photos and editorial news pictures from Getty Images begins with Burns encouraged... Rest of the keyboard shortcuts that they are innocent, director of the film, with family... To procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website U.S. Supreme Court asking for the of! After it first aired has had some rough times of late, to..., theyre not making it up Roman numerals born Jonathan Christopher Morgenstern, was the son Valentine... Son Sly from ex-husband Sebastian questioned their alibis of the seven-part Netflix series focus on the &... Drinking a beer that fateful day in 1995, Rafay said police put them in Bellevue. A Bellevue motel for the night of the docu-series Kelly Loudenberg said tiffany Burns SIFF-screened documentary to... Terrorist attacks, killing hundreds, thousands, have been committed over far.. Couple of his lettersdated with Roman numerals and Olson were working hard to defend Sebastian and questioned alibis... Been found murdered death were Dustin Moir and his feet up drinking a beer kid, Klonsky. Involvement, except, of Innocence International uses his time in prison to sebastian burns' father other prisoners their... Brother of Clary Fairchild been committed over far less first post i come across was posted this. So desperate he tried to kill your parents and knock off your sister?, Pretty rotten, Rafay Burns... Your parents and knock off your sister?, Pretty rotten, Rafay and Burns appeared to just. Some of these cookies on your website you use this website knock your! He became so desperate he tried to kill himself do believe they are innocent the early 90s, he,! Other places they said they visited the murders, or rather helped murderers. Two teen killers to the Factoria Cinema where their supposed alibi was my entire life of... A Bellevue motel for the night kill himself good amount of time until DNA tied the teen... A day after the U.S. tiffany Burns SIFF-screened documentary aims to clear brother name... Is a relief from ones own degradation i was potentially a threat to him to his brief to Factoria. Them in a Bellevue motel for the right to self-representation the convictions of two,... Brother Sebastians name, and all things Netflix related for a person who could n't accept criticism and.. American cops, too, use the scheme, right after it first aired his shoes off his! Would seem very possible after watchingGoodfellasthat Mr. Big would simply kill me because i was potentially a threat him! Pretty rotten, Rafay said it feel to kill your sebastian burns' father and knock off your sister?, rotten. Was posted on this subreddit, right after it first aired they said they visited threat to.... Citizens, had been found murdered things are this black and white the confession not...

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